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	<title>Comments on: I&#8217;m Disappointing Already</title>
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	<link>http://jrothman.com/blog/mpd/2008/12/im-disappointing-already.html</link>
	<description>Management, especially good management, is hard to do. This blog is for people who want to think about how they manage people, projects, and risk.</description>
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		<title>By: Johannes Link</title>
		<link>http://jrothman.com/blog/mpd/2008/12/im-disappointing-already.html/comment-page-1#comment-31040</link>
		<dc:creator>Johannes Link</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 16:47:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jrothman.com/blog/mpd/?p=8571#comment-31040</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s one seemingly obvious (or stupid?) idea that has not been mentioned in the comments so far: Why not go through a short &amp; public iteration of proposing and reviewing stages? I must confess that the 2008 stage structure left me bewildered - not only due to the large number of stages but also because the stage descriptions didn&#039;t really appeal to me. This could probably be remedied by an open process for stages layout.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s one seemingly obvious (or stupid?) idea that has not been mentioned in the comments so far: Why not go through a short &amp; public iteration of proposing and reviewing stages? I must confess that the 2008 stage structure left me bewildered &#8211; not only due to the large number of stages but also because the stage descriptions didn&#8217;t really appeal to me. This could probably be remedied by an open process for stages layout.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin E. Schlabach</title>
		<link>http://jrothman.com/blog/mpd/2008/12/im-disappointing-already.html/comment-page-1#comment-31028</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin E. Schlabach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 11:40:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jrothman.com/blog/mpd/?p=8571#comment-31028</guid>
		<description>Johanna

Organizing the agile conference is a huge undertaking, you can&#039;t make everyone happy.  Reducing the stages is imperative to allowing attendees to be able to absorb the content.  Stay focused on this.

The experience reports were bad experiences (maybe I picked the wrong ones?), I&#039;m guessing that&#039;s why they withered.

Keep up the good work.  As long as you follow the feedback you received at Agile 2008, you are supporting the &quot;main voice&quot; for the conference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Johanna</p>
<p>Organizing the agile conference is a huge undertaking, you can&#8217;t make everyone happy.  Reducing the stages is imperative to allowing attendees to be able to absorb the content.  Stay focused on this.</p>
<p>The experience reports were bad experiences (maybe I picked the wrong ones?), I&#8217;m guessing that&#8217;s why they withered.</p>
<p>Keep up the good work.  As long as you follow the feedback you received at Agile 2008, you are supporting the &#8220;main voice&#8221; for the conference.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Freeman</title>
		<link>http://jrothman.com/blog/mpd/2008/12/im-disappointing-already.html/comment-page-1#comment-30986</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Freeman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Dec 2008 14:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jrothman.com/blog/mpd/?p=8571#comment-30986</guid>
		<description>I know how complicated organising a conference is, so I&#039;m sympathetic. And I find the proposed structure too narrow.

I would also suggest, however, that a conference where none of the sessions fail isn&#039;t trying hard enough. Over my years of organising conferences, I&#039;ve tried to ensure that they include some outliers,  which may collapse or be surprisingly successful. These days there are commercial event organisers that can provide a reliable product, our job should include furthering the state of the art.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know how complicated organising a conference is, so I&#8217;m sympathetic. And I find the proposed structure too narrow.</p>
<p>I would also suggest, however, that a conference where none of the sessions fail isn&#8217;t trying hard enough. Over my years of organising conferences, I&#8217;ve tried to ensure that they include some outliers,  which may collapse or be surprisingly successful. These days there are commercial event organisers that can provide a reliable product, our job should include furthering the state of the art.</p>
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		<title>By: Support the Agile Fringe &#171; AvailAgility</title>
		<link>http://jrothman.com/blog/mpd/2008/12/im-disappointing-already.html/comment-page-1#comment-30968</link>
		<dc:creator>Support the Agile Fringe &#171; AvailAgility</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 21:46:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jrothman.com/blog/mpd/?p=8571#comment-30968</guid>
		<description>[...] http://jrothman.com/blog/mpd/2008/12/im-disappointing-already.html Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)My Recipe For SuccessAgile 2008: program lockedDavid Douglas and Robin Dymond on &#8220;We Suck Less!&#8221; Is Not EnoughDavid Anderson on &#8220;Future Directions for Agile&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://jrothman.com/blog/mpd/2008/12/im-disappointing-already.html" rel="nofollow">http://jrothman.com/blog/mpd/2008/12/im-disappointing-already.html</a> Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)My Recipe For SuccessAgile 2008: program lockedDavid Douglas and Robin Dymond on &ldquo;We Suck Less!&rdquo; Is Not EnoughDavid Anderson on &ldquo;Future Directions for Agile&rdquo; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Karl Scotland</title>
		<link>http://jrothman.com/blog/mpd/2008/12/im-disappointing-already.html/comment-page-1#comment-30967</link>
		<dc:creator>Karl Scotland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 21:41:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jrothman.com/blog/mpd/?p=8571#comment-30967</guid>
		<description>Hi Johanna,
While I publicly support the case for the Agile Fringe, I would also like to publicly  support you and the conference committee.  I hope that this open discussion will result in a solution which meets everyone&#039;s needs.
Karl</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Johanna,<br />
While I publicly support the case for the Agile Fringe, I would also like to publicly  support you and the conference committee.  I hope that this open discussion will result in a solution which meets everyone&#8217;s needs.<br />
Karl</p>
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		<title>By: Willem van den Ende</title>
		<link>http://jrothman.com/blog/mpd/2008/12/im-disappointing-already.html/comment-page-1#comment-30960</link>
		<dc:creator>Willem van den Ende</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 15:07:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jrothman.com/blog/mpd/?p=8571#comment-30960</guid>
		<description>Hi Joanna, your hard work is much appreciated :), as is your response.

It seems it is time for the iteration retrospective, project is not failed yet... ;)

Adding a fringe does not necessarily require an extra stage. integrate experience reports in all stages, so like in 2008 actual experience is present everywhere. That leaves space for e.g. a fringe stage. 

The many stages were indeed confusing. Keith Ray&#039;s suggestion above looks promising.

And yes (Ahmeds suggestion mentioned in Davids post), Open Space provides space for new ideas. I would be the last to discount that, being a big proponent of open space and all. 

However, &#039;we&#039; usually reward presenters with free entrance and hotel rooms, and the current system favours (and even rewards) the (late?) status quo over new ideas. 

The submission system does seem to favour existing stuff over new stuff (I had even difficulty to sneak in a breaking acts session with a new presenter, the topic of which has proven to be useful in client situations... without breaking acts, it would not have made the program at all, I&#039;m sure). 

In 2009 it looks like we&#039;ll need new ideas more than ever... critical thinking and doing is key (and what agile is about to me). let&#039;s be inviting :). Having a fringe will show this, and we can compensate the rebels with or without a cause same as the establishment (some consider yours truly to be part of that ;) ).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Joanna, your hard work is much appreciated :), as is your response.</p>
<p>It seems it is time for the iteration retrospective, project is not failed yet&#8230; ;)</p>
<p>Adding a fringe does not necessarily require an extra stage. integrate experience reports in all stages, so like in 2008 actual experience is present everywhere. That leaves space for e.g. a fringe stage. </p>
<p>The many stages were indeed confusing. Keith Ray&#8217;s suggestion above looks promising.</p>
<p>And yes (Ahmeds suggestion mentioned in Davids post), Open Space provides space for new ideas. I would be the last to discount that, being a big proponent of open space and all. </p>
<p>However, &#8216;we&#8217; usually reward presenters with free entrance and hotel rooms, and the current system favours (and even rewards) the (late?) status quo over new ideas. </p>
<p>The submission system does seem to favour existing stuff over new stuff (I had even difficulty to sneak in a breaking acts session with a new presenter, the topic of which has proven to be useful in client situations&#8230; without breaking acts, it would not have made the program at all, I&#8217;m sure). </p>
<p>In 2009 it looks like we&#8217;ll need new ideas more than ever&#8230; critical thinking and doing is key (and what agile is about to me). let&#8217;s be inviting :). Having a fringe will show this, and we can compensate the rebels with or without a cause same as the establishment (some consider yours truly to be part of that ;) ).</p>
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		<title>By: Luke Hohmann</title>
		<link>http://jrothman.com/blog/mpd/2008/12/im-disappointing-already.html/comment-page-1#comment-30949</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke Hohmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 04:32:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jrothman.com/blog/mpd/?p=8571#comment-30949</guid>
		<description>Great discussion, everyone. Since Johanna invited us to submit a few more ideas, I&#039;ll start by giving her, Ahmed, the everyone else who is participating a sincere &quot;thank you&quot; for all of their hard work. 

I have one minor desire, perhaps for this conference, perhaps for another. I&#039;d love to see a stage &quot;Anything BUT Agile&quot;, where we could invite other communities to participate in our community. I&#039;m suggesting this because I find that when I read new magazines (like IDSA and Taste of Home instead of IEEE Computer and CACM) I gain valuable insights that actually help me be a better agilist. I&#039;ve found that inviting people like Preston Smith to join our community produces interesting results, like his marvelous involvement in the APLN. So, in the spirit of planting seeds for our collective future, I wonder what others might think of an &quot;Anything But Agile&quot; stage. 

Chris Matts, pile on!

Luke
www.buyafeature.com: The seriously FUN way to prioritize serious -- and not so serious -- stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great discussion, everyone. Since Johanna invited us to submit a few more ideas, I&#8217;ll start by giving her, Ahmed, the everyone else who is participating a sincere &#8220;thank you&#8221; for all of their hard work. </p>
<p>I have one minor desire, perhaps for this conference, perhaps for another. I&#8217;d love to see a stage &#8220;Anything BUT Agile&#8221;, where we could invite other communities to participate in our community. I&#8217;m suggesting this because I find that when I read new magazines (like IDSA and Taste of Home instead of IEEE Computer and CACM) I gain valuable insights that actually help me be a better agilist. I&#8217;ve found that inviting people like Preston Smith to join our community produces interesting results, like his marvelous involvement in the APLN. So, in the spirit of planting seeds for our collective future, I wonder what others might think of an &#8220;Anything But Agile&#8221; stage. </p>
<p>Chris Matts, pile on!</p>
<p>Luke<br />
<a href="http://www.buyafeature.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.buyafeature.com</a>: The seriously FUN way to prioritize serious &#8212; and not so serious &#8212; stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: keith ray</title>
		<link>http://jrothman.com/blog/mpd/2008/12/im-disappointing-already.html/comment-page-1#comment-30886</link>
		<dc:creator>keith ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 19:28:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jrothman.com/blog/mpd/?p=8571#comment-30886</guid>
		<description>17 stages is still a lot. Maybe these can be combined into 6 stages with only a few simultaneous sessions for each stage. 

stage 1:
  Agile Adoption	
  Manifesting Agility
  New to Agile

stage 2:
  Agile &amp; Organizational Culture	
  Customers &amp; Business Value
  User Experience

stage 3:
  Agile Product Management	
  Leadership &amp; Teams
  Coaching

stage 4:
  Developer Jam
  Open Jam
  Live Aid

stage 5:
  Telling Our Stories
  Research

stage 6:
  Tools for Agility
  Testing
  Distributed Agile

And &quot;main stage&quot; could have a few sessions from each of these stages.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>17 stages is still a lot. Maybe these can be combined into 6 stages with only a few simultaneous sessions for each stage. </p>
<p>stage 1:<br />
  Agile Adoption<br />
  Manifesting Agility<br />
  New to Agile</p>
<p>stage 2:<br />
  Agile &amp; Organizational Culture<br />
  Customers &amp; Business Value<br />
  User Experience</p>
<p>stage 3:<br />
  Agile Product Management<br />
  Leadership &amp; Teams<br />
  Coaching</p>
<p>stage 4:<br />
  Developer Jam<br />
  Open Jam<br />
  Live Aid</p>
<p>stage 5:<br />
  Telling Our Stories<br />
  Research</p>
<p>stage 6:<br />
  Tools for Agility<br />
  Testing<br />
  Distributed Agile</p>
<p>And &#8220;main stage&#8221; could have a few sessions from each of these stages.</p>
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		<title>By: George Dinwiddie</title>
		<link>http://jrothman.com/blog/mpd/2008/12/im-disappointing-already.html/comment-page-1#comment-30883</link>
		<dc:creator>George Dinwiddie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 18:11:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jrothman.com/blog/mpd/?p=8571#comment-30883</guid>
		<description>David, I don&#039;t see that your conclusion necessarily follows from the data you present.  I can think of quite a few other interpretations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, I don&#8217;t see that your conclusion necessarily follows from the data you present.  I can think of quite a few other interpretations.</p>
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		<title>By: David Anderson</title>
		<link>http://jrothman.com/blog/mpd/2008/12/im-disappointing-already.html/comment-page-1#comment-30857</link>
		<dc:creator>David Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 22:17:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jrothman.com/blog/mpd/?p=8571#comment-30857</guid>
		<description>Replying to George...

I&#039;m well aware of the open space options that the conference provides but there is a gap that needs to be filled.

For example, kanban was a single open space session in 2007. At Agile 2008 there were 6 sessions on kanban but almost all of them appeared on the Breaking Acts stage. If you take that stage away then it is very hard for those emerging new ideas to break out from the open space in to the main program.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Replying to George&#8230;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m well aware of the open space options that the conference provides but there is a gap that needs to be filled.</p>
<p>For example, kanban was a single open space session in 2007. At Agile 2008 there were 6 sessions on kanban but almost all of them appeared on the Breaking Acts stage. If you take that stage away then it is very hard for those emerging new ideas to break out from the open space in to the main program.</p>
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